Post by Derricka on Sept 25, 2005 21:22:30 GMT -5
The new 1.8 talents are great, but many non Druids are now concerned that Druids will approach Rogues in damage, Warriors in tanking, Mages in spellcasting, and Priests in healing, depending on talent spec. So, in reality, how close can Druids really come to their parent classes in 1.8? Here's a comparison of potential healing/damage/survivability capability (on paper) in a controlled PvE environment. Just skip to the bold text if you (understandably) don't want to read the whole thing 
HEALING
Restoration Druid vs. Priest
Note: assuming the Druid has the applicable Restoration talents and the Priest has the applicable Holy talents. Also keep in mind that Priests interested in end-game healing will almost certainly have Inspiration (10 point Holy talent), which increases the target's armor value by 5% for 15 sec after getting a critical effect from Flash Heal, Heal, Greater Heal, or Prayer of Healing, and will always have Power Word: Shield; Restoration Druids have nothing close to those two abilities. Priests also have a talent that gives them +5% critical effect chance for Holy spells, while Druids do not have a comparable talent for
Restoration spells.
Healing Touch vs. Greater Heal
Healing Touch (rank 10)
Casting time: 3.0 sec
Amount healed (on average): 2266
Mana cost: 711
Greater Heal (rank 4):
Casting time: 3.5 sec
Amount healed: 2788.5
Mana cost: 816
Mana Efficiency:
Healing Touch - 3.2 health/mana
Greater Heal - 3.4 health/mana
Healing per second:
Healing Touch - 755 health per second (hps)
Greater Heal - 797 hps
Conclusion:
Greater Heal is capable of 5.6% more healing per second and is 6.3% more mana efficient than Healing Touch. Healing Touch is also Druids' primary method of direct healing.
Tranquility vs. Prayer of Healing
Tranquility (rank 4)
Casting time: 10.0 sec (channeled)
Amount healed: 1470
Mana cost: 926
Cooldown: 5 minutes
Prayer of Healing (rank 4)
Casting timer: 3.0 sec (not channeled)
Amount healed: 1013
Mana cost: 824
Cooldown: none
Mana Efficiency:
Tranquility - 1.6 health/mana
Prayer of Healing - 1.2 health/mana
Healing per second:
Tranquility - 147 hps
Prayer of Healing - 338 hps
Conclusion:
Prayer of Healing is capable of 129.9% more healing per second and is 25.0% less mana efficient than Tranquility. Tranquility is also a channeled spell, and has a 5 minute cooldown.
Rejuvenation vs. Renew
Rejuvenation (rank 10)
Effect time: 12.0 sec
Amount healed: 956
Mana cost: 335
Renew (rank 9)
Effect time: 15.0 sec
Amount healed: 1025
Mana cost: 365
Mana Efficiency:
Rejuvenation - 2.9 health/mana
Renew - 2.8 health/mana
Healing per second:
Rejuvenation - 80 hps
Renew - 68 hps
Conclusion:
Renew is capable of 3.5% less healing per second and is 17.6% less mana efficient than Rejuvenation. However, Renew is not Priests' primary method of healing, while Rejuvenation is for Druids.
Healing Touch vs. Flash Heal
Healing Touch (rank 10)
Casting time: 3.0 sec
Amount healed: 2266
Mana cost: 711
Flash Heal (rank 7)
Casting time: 1.5 sec
Amount healed: 937.5
Mana cost: 380
Mana Efficiency:
Healing Touch - 3.2 health/mana
Flash Heal - 2.5 health/mana
Healing per second:
Healing Touch - 755 hps
Flash Heal - 625 hps
Conclusion:
Flash Heal is capable of 20.8% less healing per second and is 28% less mana efficient than Healing Touch. However, Flash Heal's 1.5 sec casting time gives it much greater utility.
The Verdict - Who's the Better Healer?
The new Restoration tree pulls some impressive numbers on paper, but will a Restoration Druid become more desired as a healer than a Priest? Not really. While full Restoration Druids can now approach Priests in raw healing power and mana efficiency, Priests will always be better main healers. Why? Priests are much, much, much better equipped than Druids in emergencies with Power World: Shield and Flash Heal. Essentially, Restoration Druids can be considered as powerful healers as Priests, but lack all of their healing versatility - sound familiar?
SPELLCASTING
Moonkin Form vs. Mage
Yes, Moonkin form has plate armor - but what Mage utility does it lack in the process? To name a few: Blink, Counterspell, Evocation (no Innervate =P), greater burst damage, better single-target damage, better AOE, a bigger mana pool, and effective crowd control such as Polymorph and Frost Nova. Oh, and Druids can't heal, or use potions and trinkets while in Moonkin. That isn't to say that Balance Druids aren't viable now (they definitely are), but in no way is several thousand armor and the ability to heal without Nature's Swiftness unbalanced in comparison to the aforementioned Mage abilities in both PvP or PvE.
Starfire vs. Fireball
Starfire (rank 6)
Casting time: 3.0 sec
Damage (on average): 533.5
Mana cost: 287
Fireball (rank 11)
Casting time: 3.0 sec
Damage: 702
Mana cost: 395[/ul]
Mana Efficiency:
Starfire - 1.9 damage/mana
Fireball - 1.8 damage/mana
Damage per second:
Starfire - 178 dps
Fireball - 234 dps
Conclusion:
Fireball is capable of 31.5% more damage per second and is 5.6% less mana efficient than Starfire. However, Starfire has a 15% chance to stun the target for 3 seconds.
Wrath vs. Frostbolt
Wrath (rank 8)
Casting time: 1.5 sec
Damage: 330
Mana cost: 164
Frostbolt (rank 10)
Casting time: 2.5 sec
Damage: 473
Mana cost: 221
Mana Efficiency:
Wrath - 2.0 damage/mana
Frostbolt - 2.1 damage/mana
Damage per second:
Wrath - 220 dps
Frostbolt - 189 dps
Conclusion:
Frostbolt is capable of 16.4% less damage per second and is 5.0% more mana efficient than Wrath. However, Frostbolt adds a chilling effect, and has a 50% increased critical strike chance against frozen targets for Frost Mages (who are primarily the ones who use this spell).
Hurricane vs. Blizzard
Hurricane (rank 3)
Channeling time: 10.0 sec
Damage: 1010
Mana cost: 1125
Blizzard (rank 6)
Channeling time: 8.0 sec
Damage: 1192
Mana cost: 1190
Mana Efficiency:
Hurricane - 0.9 damage/mana
Blizzard - 1.0 damage/mana
Damage per second:
Hurricane - 101 dps
Blizzard - 149 dps
Conclusion:
Blizzard is capable of 47.5% more damage per second and is 11.1% more mana efficient than Hurricane. Hurricane adds a 20% attack speed debuff, and Blizzard adds a chilling effect that slows movement to 70%.
The Verdict - Who's the Better Nuker?
Balance Druids can do some serious damage now, but Mages still beat them by a lot in single-target damage, and Blizzard blows Hurricane out of the water (hoho). For Mages concerned that Hurricane is now targetable and a trainable spell - Blizzard does close to 50% more dps. You won't see Moonkins replacing Mages in instances anytime soon, but Balance Druids are definitely desirable as decent damage nukers who can take hits and provide a great buff to other spellcasters (the +3% spell crit chance applies to healing as well), while able to become backup healers in emergency situations. In fact, Balance Druids (along with Feral Druids) are now the best "5th man" class - even, perhaps unfairly, than Paladins - at least until 1.9.
MELEE DAMAGE
Cat Form vs. Rogue
This "test" is a bit harder to do, since melee damage for Rogues is based on a variable weapon, but also easier since virtually all Cat Form skills are identical in nature to their Rogue counterparts. For the sake of comparison let's assume that the Rogue is using Heartseeker (a blue dagger that has 41.5 dps, and a damage range of 49-92) in the main hand, and note that the Druid default "feral weapon" does 53.6 dps, and Cat Form has a 1.0 attack speed that all skills are based off of. Also, assume both the Feral Druid in Cat Form and the Rogue will both have 700 attack power - relatively easy to obtain for casual players. However, Rogues will always have a higher overall crit chance from agility, and a higher crit chance for many skills due to talents.
Claw vs. Sinister Strike
Note: for this example the Rogue is using Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge (a blue sword that has 41.4 dps, and a damage range of 81-151), because a dagger Rogue won't be spamming Sinister Strike in an instance.
Claw (rank 5)
Damage (on average): 262.3
Sinister Strike (rank 8)
Damage: 466.4
Damage per second:
Claw - 66 dps
Sinister Strike - 116 dps
Conclusion:
Sinister Strike does 75.8% more damage per second than Claw.
Shred vs. Backstab
Shred (rank 5)
Damage: 413.1
Energy cost: 48
Backstab(rank 8)
Damage: 697.1
Energy cost: 60
Energy Efficiency:
Shred - 8.6 damage/energy
Backstab - 11.6 damage/energy
Damage per second:
Shred - 86 dps
Backstab - 116 dps
Conclusion:
Backstab is capable of 27.9% more damage per second and is 27.9% more energy efficient than Shred.
Ravage vs. Ambush
Ravage (rank 6)
Damage: 847
Ambush (rank 6)
Damage: 962 (Improved Ambush, a tier 2 Sublety talent, gives Ambush +45% crit chance)
Damage per second:
Ambush does 13.6% more damage than Ravage.
Ferocious Bite vs. Eviscerate
Using 5 combo points.
Ferocious Bite (rank 4)
Damage with 35 energy: 914
Damage with 100 energy: 1077
Eviscerate (rank 8)
Damage: 1111
Conclusion:
Eviscerate does 3.2% more damage than a 100 energy Ferocious Bite, and 21.6% more damage than a 35 energy Ferocious Bite.
Rip vs. Rupture
Using 5 combo points.
Rip (rank 6)
Damage: 1092
Effect time: 12.0 sec
Rupture (rank 6)
Damage: 935
Effect time: 22.0 sec
Damage per second:
Rip - 91 dps
Rupture - 43 dps
Conclusion:
Rip does 112% more damage per second and 16.8% more total damage than Rupture. However, Rogues rarely use Rupture, and can do even more damage through instant attacks.
The Verdict - Will Cat Form outdps Rogues?
Not even close; a similiarly equipped Rogue with the two mentioned relatively easy-to-obtain blue weapons outdamages Cat Form by far on every skill but Rip. Some Rogues were upset that a Cat Form skill dared to outdamage a Rogue skill in 1.7, but to those Rogues I ask: when was the last time you used Rupture? Cat Form's only method of serious damage comes from damage over time, while Rogues can dish out just as much damage in a matter of seconds. Granted, the new Druid weapons that aid scaling will boost Cat Form's numbers, but they still won't come close to bridging the damage gap between Cat Form and Rogues, and only serve to make Feral Druids more viable while remaining balanced. These numbers do show, however, that the buffed Cat Form plus the new Feral talents makes Cat Form deal superb manaless damage in instances, while providing every nearby Hunter, Shaman, Paladin, Warrior, or Rogue with increased crit chance.
TANKING
Bear Form vs. Warrior
There isn't much to compare here in terms of numbers, but tanking in Bear Form just got 15% easier. A Feral Druid can also surpass a Warrior in health (with Heart of the Wild), in addition to armor. However, a Warrior will still outtank even the best-equipped Feral Druid because of Defensive Stance (which givesa flat 10% damage reduction and +30% more threat, or 45% with talents - compared to 15% more threat in Bear Form with the new Feral Instinct), Sunder Armor, Revenge, more damage (yes, even a Protection Warrior using a sword + board), and other superior aggro tools. Warriors need not feel threatened - Druids are now just more viable main tanks in 5-man instances and better offtanks/emergency maintanks in the end-game.
Parry/Block vs. Lots and lots of Armor
Base parry chance = 4.68%
Virtually every Warrior has Deflection (+5% parry), which equals 9.68% parry chance.
9.68% parry chance is essentially 9.68% damage reduction, or many thousands of armor.
Assuming equal dodge chance, a Warrior with 8000 armor (59.3% damage reduction), and able to absorb 6% of damage with block is immune to 75% of all physical damage.
A Druid under the same conditions requires 16500 armor in Bear Form to achieve the same damage mitigation.
The Verdict - Will Bear form outtank a Warrior?
OH NOES
(I hope this was an interesting and informative read, and helps convince some people that Druids are not the "new shaman". Again, thanks for reading if you got this far
If you see any factual errors etc, please let me know!)
--- info provided by a post on the druid forum with Derricka's personal touchies
HEALING
Restoration Druid vs. Priest
Note: assuming the Druid has the applicable Restoration talents and the Priest has the applicable Holy talents. Also keep in mind that Priests interested in end-game healing will almost certainly have Inspiration (10 point Holy talent), which increases the target's armor value by 5% for 15 sec after getting a critical effect from Flash Heal, Heal, Greater Heal, or Prayer of Healing, and will always have Power Word: Shield; Restoration Druids have nothing close to those two abilities. Priests also have a talent that gives them +5% critical effect chance for Holy spells, while Druids do not have a comparable talent for
Restoration spells.
Healing Touch vs. Greater Heal
Healing Touch (rank 10)
Casting time: 3.0 sec
Amount healed (on average): 2266
Mana cost: 711
Greater Heal (rank 4):
Casting time: 3.5 sec
Amount healed: 2788.5
Mana cost: 816
Mana Efficiency:
Healing Touch - 3.2 health/mana
Greater Heal - 3.4 health/mana
Healing per second:
Healing Touch - 755 health per second (hps)
Greater Heal - 797 hps
Conclusion:
Greater Heal is capable of 5.6% more healing per second and is 6.3% more mana efficient than Healing Touch. Healing Touch is also Druids' primary method of direct healing.
Tranquility vs. Prayer of Healing
Tranquility (rank 4)
Casting time: 10.0 sec (channeled)
Amount healed: 1470
Mana cost: 926
Cooldown: 5 minutes
Prayer of Healing (rank 4)
Casting timer: 3.0 sec (not channeled)
Amount healed: 1013
Mana cost: 824
Cooldown: none
Mana Efficiency:
Tranquility - 1.6 health/mana
Prayer of Healing - 1.2 health/mana
Healing per second:
Tranquility - 147 hps
Prayer of Healing - 338 hps
Conclusion:
Prayer of Healing is capable of 129.9% more healing per second and is 25.0% less mana efficient than Tranquility. Tranquility is also a channeled spell, and has a 5 minute cooldown.
Rejuvenation vs. Renew
Rejuvenation (rank 10)
Effect time: 12.0 sec
Amount healed: 956
Mana cost: 335
Renew (rank 9)
Effect time: 15.0 sec
Amount healed: 1025
Mana cost: 365
Mana Efficiency:
Rejuvenation - 2.9 health/mana
Renew - 2.8 health/mana
Healing per second:
Rejuvenation - 80 hps
Renew - 68 hps
Conclusion:
Renew is capable of 3.5% less healing per second and is 17.6% less mana efficient than Rejuvenation. However, Renew is not Priests' primary method of healing, while Rejuvenation is for Druids.
Healing Touch vs. Flash Heal
Healing Touch (rank 10)
Casting time: 3.0 sec
Amount healed: 2266
Mana cost: 711
Flash Heal (rank 7)
Casting time: 1.5 sec
Amount healed: 937.5
Mana cost: 380
Mana Efficiency:
Healing Touch - 3.2 health/mana
Flash Heal - 2.5 health/mana
Healing per second:
Healing Touch - 755 hps
Flash Heal - 625 hps
Conclusion:
Flash Heal is capable of 20.8% less healing per second and is 28% less mana efficient than Healing Touch. However, Flash Heal's 1.5 sec casting time gives it much greater utility.
The Verdict - Who's the Better Healer?
The new Restoration tree pulls some impressive numbers on paper, but will a Restoration Druid become more desired as a healer than a Priest? Not really. While full Restoration Druids can now approach Priests in raw healing power and mana efficiency, Priests will always be better main healers. Why? Priests are much, much, much better equipped than Druids in emergencies with Power World: Shield and Flash Heal. Essentially, Restoration Druids can be considered as powerful healers as Priests, but lack all of their healing versatility - sound familiar?
SPELLCASTING
Moonkin Form vs. Mage
Yes, Moonkin form has plate armor - but what Mage utility does it lack in the process? To name a few: Blink, Counterspell, Evocation (no Innervate =P), greater burst damage, better single-target damage, better AOE, a bigger mana pool, and effective crowd control such as Polymorph and Frost Nova. Oh, and Druids can't heal, or use potions and trinkets while in Moonkin. That isn't to say that Balance Druids aren't viable now (they definitely are), but in no way is several thousand armor and the ability to heal without Nature's Swiftness unbalanced in comparison to the aforementioned Mage abilities in both PvP or PvE.
Starfire vs. Fireball
Starfire (rank 6)
Casting time: 3.0 sec
Damage (on average): 533.5
Mana cost: 287
Fireball (rank 11)
Casting time: 3.0 sec
Damage: 702
Mana cost: 395[/ul]
Mana Efficiency:
Starfire - 1.9 damage/mana
Fireball - 1.8 damage/mana
Damage per second:
Starfire - 178 dps
Fireball - 234 dps
Conclusion:
Fireball is capable of 31.5% more damage per second and is 5.6% less mana efficient than Starfire. However, Starfire has a 15% chance to stun the target for 3 seconds.
Wrath vs. Frostbolt
Wrath (rank 8)
Casting time: 1.5 sec
Damage: 330
Mana cost: 164
Frostbolt (rank 10)
Casting time: 2.5 sec
Damage: 473
Mana cost: 221
Mana Efficiency:
Wrath - 2.0 damage/mana
Frostbolt - 2.1 damage/mana
Damage per second:
Wrath - 220 dps
Frostbolt - 189 dps
Conclusion:
Frostbolt is capable of 16.4% less damage per second and is 5.0% more mana efficient than Wrath. However, Frostbolt adds a chilling effect, and has a 50% increased critical strike chance against frozen targets for Frost Mages (who are primarily the ones who use this spell).
Hurricane vs. Blizzard
Hurricane (rank 3)
Channeling time: 10.0 sec
Damage: 1010
Mana cost: 1125
Blizzard (rank 6)
Channeling time: 8.0 sec
Damage: 1192
Mana cost: 1190
Mana Efficiency:
Hurricane - 0.9 damage/mana
Blizzard - 1.0 damage/mana
Damage per second:
Hurricane - 101 dps
Blizzard - 149 dps
Conclusion:
Blizzard is capable of 47.5% more damage per second and is 11.1% more mana efficient than Hurricane. Hurricane adds a 20% attack speed debuff, and Blizzard adds a chilling effect that slows movement to 70%.
The Verdict - Who's the Better Nuker?
Balance Druids can do some serious damage now, but Mages still beat them by a lot in single-target damage, and Blizzard blows Hurricane out of the water (hoho). For Mages concerned that Hurricane is now targetable and a trainable spell - Blizzard does close to 50% more dps. You won't see Moonkins replacing Mages in instances anytime soon, but Balance Druids are definitely desirable as decent damage nukers who can take hits and provide a great buff to other spellcasters (the +3% spell crit chance applies to healing as well), while able to become backup healers in emergency situations. In fact, Balance Druids (along with Feral Druids) are now the best "5th man" class - even, perhaps unfairly, than Paladins - at least until 1.9.
MELEE DAMAGE
Cat Form vs. Rogue
This "test" is a bit harder to do, since melee damage for Rogues is based on a variable weapon, but also easier since virtually all Cat Form skills are identical in nature to their Rogue counterparts. For the sake of comparison let's assume that the Rogue is using Heartseeker (a blue dagger that has 41.5 dps, and a damage range of 49-92) in the main hand, and note that the Druid default "feral weapon" does 53.6 dps, and Cat Form has a 1.0 attack speed that all skills are based off of. Also, assume both the Feral Druid in Cat Form and the Rogue will both have 700 attack power - relatively easy to obtain for casual players. However, Rogues will always have a higher overall crit chance from agility, and a higher crit chance for many skills due to talents.
Claw vs. Sinister Strike
Note: for this example the Rogue is using Dal'Rend's Sacred Charge (a blue sword that has 41.4 dps, and a damage range of 81-151), because a dagger Rogue won't be spamming Sinister Strike in an instance.
Claw (rank 5)
Damage (on average): 262.3
Sinister Strike (rank 8)
Damage: 466.4
Damage per second:
Claw - 66 dps
Sinister Strike - 116 dps
Conclusion:
Sinister Strike does 75.8% more damage per second than Claw.
Shred vs. Backstab
Shred (rank 5)
Damage: 413.1
Energy cost: 48
Backstab(rank 8)
Damage: 697.1
Energy cost: 60
Energy Efficiency:
Shred - 8.6 damage/energy
Backstab - 11.6 damage/energy
Damage per second:
Shred - 86 dps
Backstab - 116 dps
Conclusion:
Backstab is capable of 27.9% more damage per second and is 27.9% more energy efficient than Shred.
Ravage vs. Ambush
Ravage (rank 6)
Damage: 847
Ambush (rank 6)
Damage: 962 (Improved Ambush, a tier 2 Sublety talent, gives Ambush +45% crit chance)
Damage per second:
Ambush does 13.6% more damage than Ravage.
Ferocious Bite vs. Eviscerate
Using 5 combo points.
Ferocious Bite (rank 4)
Damage with 35 energy: 914
Damage with 100 energy: 1077
Eviscerate (rank 8)
Damage: 1111
Conclusion:
Eviscerate does 3.2% more damage than a 100 energy Ferocious Bite, and 21.6% more damage than a 35 energy Ferocious Bite.
Rip vs. Rupture
Using 5 combo points.
Rip (rank 6)
Damage: 1092
Effect time: 12.0 sec
Rupture (rank 6)
Damage: 935
Effect time: 22.0 sec
Damage per second:
Rip - 91 dps
Rupture - 43 dps
Conclusion:
Rip does 112% more damage per second and 16.8% more total damage than Rupture. However, Rogues rarely use Rupture, and can do even more damage through instant attacks.
The Verdict - Will Cat Form outdps Rogues?
Not even close; a similiarly equipped Rogue with the two mentioned relatively easy-to-obtain blue weapons outdamages Cat Form by far on every skill but Rip. Some Rogues were upset that a Cat Form skill dared to outdamage a Rogue skill in 1.7, but to those Rogues I ask: when was the last time you used Rupture? Cat Form's only method of serious damage comes from damage over time, while Rogues can dish out just as much damage in a matter of seconds. Granted, the new Druid weapons that aid scaling will boost Cat Form's numbers, but they still won't come close to bridging the damage gap between Cat Form and Rogues, and only serve to make Feral Druids more viable while remaining balanced. These numbers do show, however, that the buffed Cat Form plus the new Feral talents makes Cat Form deal superb manaless damage in instances, while providing every nearby Hunter, Shaman, Paladin, Warrior, or Rogue with increased crit chance.
TANKING
Bear Form vs. Warrior
There isn't much to compare here in terms of numbers, but tanking in Bear Form just got 15% easier. A Feral Druid can also surpass a Warrior in health (with Heart of the Wild), in addition to armor. However, a Warrior will still outtank even the best-equipped Feral Druid because of Defensive Stance (which givesa flat 10% damage reduction and +30% more threat, or 45% with talents - compared to 15% more threat in Bear Form with the new Feral Instinct), Sunder Armor, Revenge, more damage (yes, even a Protection Warrior using a sword + board), and other superior aggro tools. Warriors need not feel threatened - Druids are now just more viable main tanks in 5-man instances and better offtanks/emergency maintanks in the end-game.
Parry/Block vs. Lots and lots of Armor
Base parry chance = 4.68%
Virtually every Warrior has Deflection (+5% parry), which equals 9.68% parry chance.
9.68% parry chance is essentially 9.68% damage reduction, or many thousands of armor.
Assuming equal dodge chance, a Warrior with 8000 armor (59.3% damage reduction), and able to absorb 6% of damage with block is immune to 75% of all physical damage.
A Druid under the same conditions requires 16500 armor in Bear Form to achieve the same damage mitigation.
The Verdict - Will Bear form outtank a Warrior?
OH NOES
(I hope this was an interesting and informative read, and helps convince some people that Druids are not the "new shaman". Again, thanks for reading if you got this far
If you see any factual errors etc, please let me know!)--- info provided by a post on the druid forum with Derricka's personal touchies
